Nov. 12th, 2008 06:01 pm
barodar: (Default)
[personal profile] barodar
You aren't responsible for anyone else's experience.  You are, however, completely responsible for your own.

any thoughts?

Date: 2008-11-12 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Abso-friggin-lutely true.

Date: 2008-11-12 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
In some circumstances, that is true, in others, not so much. If you go into a wild shooting spree in some shopping mall, I'd say you were at least partly responsible for the experiences of the folk affected. If you go to a party and have a great time while the person you are with does not--not so much your responsibility, but maybe a little? Especially if you could have done something to soothe your companion and chose not to? There are balances to be considered in most situations...did you have a particular one in mind?

Date: 2008-11-12 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
True, but you are responsible for not ruining anyone else's experience.

Date: 2008-11-12 11:51 pm (UTC)
queenofhalves: (Default)
From: [personal profile] queenofhalves
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Date: 2008-11-13 12:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
In order to maintain and foster a sense of social cohesion, I'm going to say that I don't agree with this libertarian perspective. Although my primary responsibility is for my own experience, I am responsible for that of those around me to the extent that it is necessary to maintain the sort of social structure that I am interested in creating around me.

Date: 2008-11-13 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
To some degree. But I have often heard this (or something very similar) to excuse bad behavior and blame the victim. So while on several levels I consider this both true and healthy, one must be careful of the context.

Date: 2008-11-13 01:08 am (UTC)
blk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blk

With all the caveats other people listed, of course.

I think I disagree with this statement

Date: 2008-11-13 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
1. To feel strong, we must believe that we are completely responsible for our own experiences.

2. To be loving, we must take responsibility for our companions’ experiences.

3. To be intimate, we must allow our companions have to affect our experiences.

4. To be respectful, we must allow our companions to own their experiences

To be whole, we must do all of these at once.

Re: I think I disagree with this statement

Date: 2008-11-13 04:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This is great! Are you quoting from somewhere, or did you just compose it?

Re: I think I disagree with this statement

Date: 2008-11-13 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Thanks. I composed it. Though as I said in my own post, it feels a lot like I'm paraphrasing lots of other philosophers.

Re: I think I disagree with this statement

Date: 2008-11-13 09:56 pm (UTC)
queenofhalves: (Default)
From: [personal profile] queenofhalves
am saving this!

Date: 2008-11-13 02:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I would feel a lot better about this sentiment if it weren't so commonly used as an excuse by people too damn lazy or evil to be civil to their fellow man.

Date: 2008-11-13 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Or who want to blame the victim. If we're entirely responsible for our own experiences, then everything -- both good and bad -- is our fault. To use a brutal example, are people responsible for their own experiences of rape? How about cancer? How about poverty?

I am a huge believer in people's ability to change themselves, their minds, and their perspectives, and in the idea that we should all be using this power for good. I also believe that in some cases, it's very important for all of us to remember that we have tremendous agency and ability to affect our lives. But that's not an excuse to write off conditions beyond our individual control, especially when they're things we might be able to change by banding together.

Date: 2008-11-13 03:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You inspired me to write more, but I don't know how to put a link into a reply, so here 'tis

Date: 2008-11-13 04:15 am (UTC)
ext_155430: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
I disagree. What I believe you are in control of is your *response* to your experience.

Date: 2008-11-13 09:58 pm (UTC)
queenofhalves: (Default)
From: [personal profile] queenofhalves
well put.

Date: 2008-11-13 05:44 am (UTC)
mangosteen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mangosteen

If I put a bullet through someone's head, I most certainly am responsible for their experience, specifically because they get no choice as to their experience.

One can work backward from that and get to mentally abusive behavior. If my (implicit or explicit) goal is to verbally assault someone and make them feel like crap, then they can perceive it any way they want, but I'm making the odds of certain experiences a lot more likely.

Date: 2008-11-13 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I don't buy either of these statements. Having been following what's been going on politically for the past... er... my entire life, I'd say there are a hell of a lot of people who go through experiences that are beyond their control. They may have some control, but not complete.

Take for example, someone who loses their job because the economy tanks, then loses their home because they can't afford payments on the loan they shouldn't have gotten in the first place, then gets sick from the stress, and has no health care.

Now, you could argue that this person could have been more pro-active in training themselves for a job with more security, could have thought more about their ability to pay off a mortgage, and could have watched their health more. And you'd be right. But I certainly don't think they are completely responsible for their experience.

On a more personal scale, the person who opens their car door without looking and hits a biker is definitely responsible for the biker's experience.

On a more positive note, you, [ profile] barodar are at least partly responsible for a number of wonderful experiences I've had, and I hope I've been at least partially responsible for some of yours.
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